In Shadowrun 4 there is a spell called "Shape [Material]"
Shape [Material] (Environmental, Area)
Type: P • Range: LOS (A) • Duration: S • DV: (F ÷ 2) + 3
This spell allows the caster to move and shape a volume of a specified element or material (air, earth, water, fire, mud, lava, plasteel, concrete, tar, etc.) within range. The caster must beat the material’s Object Resistance threshold (p. 174, SR4). The material can be moved and reshaped in any way the caster desires, at a maximum Movement Rate of (net hits) meters per turn. Loose material can be moved and re-shaped easily, but material that is connected or reinforced (such as walls or other material part of a structure) must be broken apart by reducing its Structure rating by Force points per Combat Turn. This spell allows the caster to rapidly dig holes, redirect streams, fill balloons, create a path through a fire, construct a barricade, or create a doorway where one didn’t exist before. Each element/material requires a separate spell (Shape Sand, Shape Ice, Shape Wood, Shape Concrete, and so on). Elements or materials reshaped by the caster remain in that form when the spell ends. If that form cannot be supported by the material, it will collapse. The material/element can also be spread out, extinguished, or evaporated; for example, a fire could be extinguished by reducing the Power by the caster’s Spellcasting hits each turn.
What would happen if a magician with Shape [Water] pointed a finger at you and said "Evaporate"?
Related question: how does power supply (electricity) in SRverse works? Are there big cable lines, or did the world went tesla and electricity is wifi as well?
What happens if a noncleric UMD's a wand of anyspell? Anyspell states the spell it prepares occupies the caster's 3rd level domain slot, but a rogue with UMD doesn't have a 3rd level domain spell slot to occupy. Do you also have to use UMD to mimic a spell slot to keep it in? Also, is the caster level of the prepared spell equal to your cleric level at the time you cast anyspell (letting mimiced cleric levels count), or at the time you cast the prepared spell (ensuring the caster level is always zero)?
DSMatticus wrote:I sort my leisure activities into a neat and manageable categorized hierarchy, then ignore it and dick around on the internet.
Longes wrote:What would happen if a magician with Shape [Water] pointed a finger at you and said "Evaporate"?
Nothing. It targets materials in the gross sense, not the molecular sense. Shape Water also can't smelt rust. It just lets you manipulate water. It's GM option whether it lets you shape orange juice or milk, although most GMs I have played with would let that happen.
Longes wrote:Related question: how does power supply (electricity) in SRverse works? Are there big cable lines, or did the world went tesla and electricity is wifi as well?
Shadowrun has fusion power plants and big chunks of superconductive conduit that runs from the fusion plants to major cities. Some places even have above ground power lines, because that helps with the urban decay aesthetic. That's actually even kind of realistic considering that there's a general breakdown in public utilities, so it's probably pretty hard to get underground power cables in a lot of places.
Someone on this forum posted somewhere a 20-level table of made up monster damages. It had level-appropriate damage scaling sort of like D&D and a "minion" column where the damage fell off really hard relative to the level-based counterparts.
Anyone know where that is?
DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.
In Shadowrun is there a functional difference between a cyborg who replaced his limbs with cyberware vs being a quadriplegic rigger who happens to be inside of the humanoid drone he pilots?
Someone on this forum posted somewhere a 20-level table of made up monster damages. It had level-appropriate damage scaling sort of like D&D and a "minion" column where the damage fell off really hard relative to the level-based counterparts.
http://www.tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=376307
Under "Scaling bonuses in a level based system" is when Frank made a 1-20 list of how it SHOULD look, and mentions how when you're at level 20 you fight a lot more minions than at level 1.
DSMatticus wrote:Again, look at this fucking map you moron. Take your finger and trace each country's coast, then trace its claim line. Even you - and I say that as someone who could not think less of your intelligence - should be able to tell that one of these things is not like the other.
Kaelik wrote:I invented saying mean things about Tussock.
So I want to add more story and intrigue to my game. I'm thinking about the next adventure centering around a ball that the characters have been invited to.
Now, I know D&D cannot handle social interaction in an actually good way.
My players, however, are not so sold on that idea, so as long as things sort of work, it should be ok, even if I play MTP supported by asking for checks for most of the night.
That said.... How the fuck do I write/run an intrigue adventure?
I'm looking at, at least, having some Scarlet Brotherhood pawns attempt to recapture the half-giant soulknife character at the party for the combat encounters that there have to be to avoid a complete MTP session, and maybe some demon cultists or something*, but what do I need to cover/have prepped for this?
*I'm playing with the idea that Baphomet has taken a special interest in the party tying into some origin of demons/gods/sapient life stuff I'm writing up. Basically, the demons created life on Oerth, but it was back before they were demons. Life was created by nature spirits. Life started moving away from reverence of these spirits and towards worship of gods, creating said gods with the power of their worship. The gods wanted to seize all worship, and so began to war against the nature spirits, creating the outsiders who would become the devils, a la Pact Primeval, to combat them. As sapients moved farther and farther away from the spirits and towards the gods, the aspects of the natural spirits became darker and darker until they became CE. Baphomet's old nature spirit aspect has "woken up" recently, and is trying to reassert dominance, and wants to use the PCs to accomplish this. Meanwhile, the demonic aspect of Baphomet is trying to stop that from happening.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
So, I'm writing up Aspects for my D&D group, and the idea of modifying their base fate points by their tier came to mind so that fighters actually have more fate points than wizards, like should be the case following the way aspects were written.
The problem is that, as people have explained, JaronK's tiers are somewhat insane. I mean, obviously a Fighter is Tier 5 and a Wizard is Tier 1, but where should a Soulknife be? What if said Soulknife has Full BAB with his mindblade?
So is there, like, a Gaming Den tier list?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Given the other site's criteria for tier, I don't think any soulknife fix rises past tier 4, and even that would require a thri-kreen soulbow, or a pathfinder aegis.
The thing that tipped me off was that somehow "Fighter with ability to sac gold into his chosen weapon" (OA Samurai) is better than the Complete Warrior Samurai if it doesn't have a single specific ability.
I'd probably put Full BAB/Full BAB with mind blade Soulknife on the same tier as Barbarian and Rogue, though. So, yeah, Tier 4
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Prak_Anima wrote:So, I'm writing up Aspects for my D&D group, and the idea of modifying their base fate points by their tier came to mind so that fighters actually have more fate points than wizards, like should be the case following the way aspects were written.
The problem is that, as people have explained, JaronK's tiers are somewhat insane. I mean, obviously a Fighter is Tier 5 and a Wizard is Tier 1, but where should a Soulknife be? What if said Soulknife has Full BAB with his mindblade?
So is there, like, a Gaming Den tier list?
Soulknife is an awful awful class. Like to the point I'd play a straight Fighter over one. Giving it full BAB doesn't even scratch the surface of what's wrong with it.
Gestalting it with the Aegis would be a good place to start (I'm actually a big fan of the Aegis class). Or just use the Tome Soulborn. Alternatively give the Psiwar the ability to gain a Soulknife's mindblade for a feat, and call it done.
In no case is a free weapon worth an entire class. And the entirety of the Soulknife's other features amount to Jack and Shit. Sure a free weapon saves you some money to invest elsewhere, but not nearly enough to justify the class existing. Hell at mid-high levels the mind blade you get is just straight up worse than the equivalent weapon your friends are buying. (Especially since enhancement bonuses get covered by a low level spell slot from a friend, your whole class is basically "Get +4 worth of special abilities for free". That's worth ~50k gold by level 18 where it caps out. Great deal)
Honestly, all the characters are on roughly the same (ish) level, so it's not a huge deal. I'm just running a Tier 4 game, apparently.
New question- the Archer wants to take levels in Arcane Archer.
Looking at it as I rebuild her character because I can only conclude all choices were made by a cabbage, holy shit-eating christ is Arcane Archer a terrible class. Anyone know of a PrC that does it's shtick better?
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Prak_Anima wrote:Now, I know D&D cannot handle social interaction in an actually good way.
This is only true if the players cannot handle social interaction. Remember it is a social game.
the best way to have social anything is to make yourself s "sway" chart. Just calling it that, and if it catches on it is now trademarked.
Use the idea of DCs but give each person an agenda or goal. Thus each thing the PCs do will sway the NPCs individually depending on their agenda and how the PC actions reflect against it.
Take the old number-line out and dust it off and get the moth balls out of it and place ranges on it and decide where each NPC will begin.
negative-_-_-_-_-_-_neutral-_-_-_-_-_-_positive
depending on how the DC falls with its difficulty move closer to positive if success, or negative if failure. this will set up how hard each NPC is to sway in whatever is going on. places moved in either direction is how close the DC roll was to the DC.
DC 20 gets 18 it fails and moves 2 places towards negative. roll 22 moves 2 places towards positive.
or just use the old 1e chart where you roll a d20 randomly to see NPC reaction.
Play the game, not the rules.
Swordslinger wrote:Or fuck it... I'm just going to get weapon specialization in my cock and whip people to death with it. Given all the enemies are total pussies, it seems like the appropriate thing to do.
Lewis Black wrote:If the people of New Zealand want to be part of our world, I believe they should hop off their islands, and push 'em closer.
good read (Note to self Maxus sucks a barrel of cocks.)
Prak_Anima wrote:I'm just running a Tier 4 game, apparently.
I already know that I can't punch you over the internet. Why do you have to remind me.
Ok, yes, it's trite and stupid to say.
And because it gives me joy, Kaelik.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
What are some good reading materials (sourcebooks, adventures, online handbooks, threads, etc.) to mine for ideas and/or crunch related to undead for a Tome game? Don't give me specific ideas (unless via PM) as they're for a PbP game here and I don't want the players knowing what to expect beyond undead enemies.
Last edited by radthemad4 on Wed Apr 02, 2014 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Prak_Anima wrote:I'm just running a Tier 4 game, apparently.
I already know that I can't punch you over the internet. Why do you have to remind me.
Ok, yes, it's trite and stupid to say.
And because it gives me joy, Kaelik.
I know my players have jokingly suggested that I run a Tier 5 game, so I can wantonly kill them all before running the regular game. In the old gaming group I was a player in, I had made the resolution to only ever play Tier 5 (monks) characters because what I could do with a Tier 4 (warlock, fighter, etc) was too much for them.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
Tiers are a handy way to talk about comparative class ability. It would just be nice if they'd been written by someone with math skills.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.
You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
Tier 1: Breaking the game is no problem for us, and playing the game properly basically comes online without trying
-Full Casters that basically know all the spells ever (Wizard, Cleric, Druid)
-Full Casters that have very tailored lists and class features to make them good at what they do (Beguiler, Dread Necromancer)
Tier 2: We can still break the game at all, more importantly we can be built easily enough to be level-appropriate
-Other Full Casters
Tier 3: If you're good at what you do and like to multiclass/dive through dumpsters for feats and prestige classes, we can play the same game as long as you're not breaking it
-Rogue, Bard, Ninja, Warlock, Dragonfire Adept
Tier 3.5: We fit in one of the above Tiers if the DM lets you do whatever you want
-Artificer, Archivist
Tier 4: Classes that suck, but in low levels you can make a case for them existing, and there might be one or two specific builds for higher levels, basically requires low-balling by the DM at high levels though
-Fighting Men
Tier 5: Classes that suck sweaty minotaur balls for a living
-Monk
There. It's still overly broad and a little bit stupid, but it actually means anything at all as opposed to the Twatface ones. You are still likely to piss people off by mentioning them.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
Do you want to call tier 3.5 something obviously different like "Tier S" or something?
Vebyast wrote:Here's a fun target for Major Creation: hydrazine. One casting every six seconds at CL9 gives you a bit more than 40 liters per second, which is comparable to the flow rates of some small, but serious, rocket engines. Six items running at full blast through a well-engineered engine will put you, and something like 50 tons of cargo, into space. Alternatively, if you thrust sideways, you will briefly be a fireball screaming across the sky at mach 14 before you melt from atmospheric friction.
Sure, call it Tier X. S is reserved for Super, and is always the best rank in alphabetical things (F, D, C, B, A, S), whereas X stopped being "edgy and awesome" sometime in the 90s, and now just tends to mean "Whatever".
The D&DWiki also has a somewhat reasonable alternative to Tiers: something has a balance level of either Low (Monks, probably baseline Fighting Men), Medium (Rogues and Rangers and things), High (Casters, specific Prestige Classes that are over-the-top and turn Fighting Men into acceptable things), Very High (the game is there for the breaking) or Unquantifiable (Blue Mages and other things that are way too DM-dependent).
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
There are three completely different factors that make something more or less powerful and one thing that doesn't matter at all:
Actual Maximum power in the rules: This doesn't matter, because it is actually wish loops times infinity.
1) Having a wide range of "powerful" things that hit different balance points.
2) Easy to build powerfully.
3) Easy to play the build powerfully.
So you have Artificers, who are hard to play, hellish to build, and only have shitty and too broken and your DM will ban it. So they actually aren't that powerful at all unless your DM accepts a high range of power, and still you have to do a good job building them, and you have to play them well.
Wizards are in the same place, except of course, that they have tricks at every possible power level, so no matter what your DM does or does not ban, they will be capable of being built and played at the highest level your DM will accept.
Druids are the easy to build powerfully in existence, but they are often hard to play, and they are like Wizards in having lots of tricks at lots of levels.
Clerics have fewer tricks, so at certain power levels they come off much weaker than the Druid and Wizard, while at others they are in the same place.
Rogues are hard to build, but really easy to play, but they only really have the one power level: So much damage shit instantly dies, so your DM will either be okay with that (and probably levels of Wizard that are better than you) or he won't be and he will houserule SA damage once per round, and you will go cry. Or he will golem you to death.
Sorcerers are hard to build and easy to play. Power levels are almost all the same places as Wizards.
Beguilers are hella easy to build and play with very few power levels. But they are "lucky" in that their default fallback power level if their most broken stuff is banned is actually towards the high end of what most people accept in all their games.
Dread Necros are the opposite. If you aren't a permissive DM, they actually lose all the main sticks that are their fucking class (OP demon summoning, OP spontaneous casting from spells not on your list like 8 domains into cleric list, OP infinite undead army) and their fallback point is much lower than others, so some asshole can just make a sorcerer who makes you look like shit.
Those are all different kinds of strengths and weaknesses. Trying to create a single tier system that measures all of them is impossible or worthless. Trying to make a tier system that only measures one of them is mostly worthless. Like for example, measuring one is actually a lie, because even though the Dread Necro actually has more power levels that he clocks in at then the Beguiler, more of them are "usually" considered too powerful and either banned or gentleman's agreemented. So even having more options isn't actually indicative of anything, because your DM could be anywhere, and if you have less than "all the power levels" your class could fall at the top of what he allows, or be too high, and therefore instantly shit, like the Artificer.
Last edited by Kaelik on Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
